Politics

[davidklecha]

I don't generally talk about politics. Not really even going to talk about it now. I consider myself pretty apolitical.

But do you know what gets my blood pressure up? Naked partisanship.

Seriously. Especially when it comes to the character of politicians. I mean, I understand the psychology behind wanting to rationalize the bad behavior of One's Favorite Politico, but it's still seriously irritating to see people blasting Others for precisely the same sort of behavior.

I so hate partisan politics. Hate it hate it hate it.

Comments

[daveamongus.livejournal.com]

(I thought this might generate some responses...)

I really don't have a side, in terms of politics. I'm saddened, and somewhat offended, when people assume that I do, as happens often. I'm saddened more when people, as in this nebulous instance, claim a particular principle in order to slag down a member of the Others, but that principle is nowhere to be seen when a member of their own side is guilty of the same.

And it's not so much the process of campaigning that gets my goat, because, in that respect, I understand the drive to win and to do whatever it takes (not that I really respect the attempts), but it's when the average person sees bad behavior and claims it as a sign of unfitness, when they're unwilling to apply the same standards to their own side. What makes this person's indiscretions actionable, and that person's excusable? Near as I can tell, it's just that they represent the "correct" side. And that, to me, is itself objectionable. The only consistency is a slavish devotion to the party, which in turn is something I can't understand, as a person who can't bring himself to agree wholly with either of the major parties, or any of the minor ones.

[marnan.livejournal.com]

Somewhere I'm not getting exactly what you mean.

I mean, I don't THINK you mean exactly that you 'don't have a side'. I've talked politics with you, we've discussed things, there are many things where you're very clear what side you're on.

Do you mean you don't have a party?

Or something else?

"I'm saddened more when people, as in this nebulous instance, claim a particular principle in order to slag down a member of the Others, but that principle is nowhere to be seen when a member of their own side is guilty of the same."

It's never pretty behaviour. And really, I do see it as a result of the death of (issue-driven) partisan politics per se: we've come to have this notion that "character" (by which we often mean personality) matters because really, it's getting to be all that DOES matter, all too often. Because there's very much less difference in issues and platforms, or if there is that difference, people conceal it, they don't want to be out there on a limb, they'll get ripped up.

That being said, it does depend. Take the hypothetical gay rights opponent who turns out to be gay. Think I care that he's gay? Nope.

Think anyone who opposes him cares? Nope.

About the hypocrisy, the well-it's-okay-for-me-I'm-special, I kind of care, but then, I bet I didn't like him anyway. So hey.

But you know what? It's going to KILL him with his supporters. And I, knowing this, am perfectly content to watch him go down for it. I'm not going to defend him, either. And I'm not going to cry that he CHOSE to put himself in that place, and got caught.

Of course, I also see the whole 'principle' thing as part of that particularly unhealthy drive to non-partisanship, or at least it's appearance.

Sorry to wail on that, but it _is_ the topic du jour.

Nobody wants to be mean, oh, no. Nobody wants to display any sort of naked satisfaction when an opponent takes themselves down, or makes a strategic error.

Nobody wants to own up. It's not that I want to take the guy down, they cry -- it's the PRINCIPLE!

Well, usually it isn't, which is why it's nowhere to be seen when it's their own guy.

Or at least, the principle involved is usually just: "if you want to be in politics, there are kinds of stupid you can get away with, and kinds you can't. Learn to tell the difference. "

I remember when politics were very much more openly partisan, but by Gods, they were cleaner then, too.

I think you overestimate the slavish devotion thing. I'm not slavishly devoted to the NDP. I am an NDP member. I vote NDP. I've been known to work for them. I've certainly been known to shill for them.

I'd like to see them in power. They are my chosen representatives, but I don't think they represent me perfectly. I don't expect them to. I don't expect ANYONE to, or even want it.

They aren't necessarily the 'correct side'; but they are MY side.

[daveamongus.livejournal.com]

I mean, I don't THINK you mean exactly that you 'don't have a side'. I've talked politics with you, we've discussed things, there are many things where you're very clear what side you're on.

Well, firstly, the me you've argued politics with was a younger, much more hot-headed me. He's learned a bit in the intervening years. Though, he knew enough to register "independent," which from my current perspective looks to be wise beyond his years. But I digress.

Do you mean you don't have a party?

That is, among other things, precisely what I mean. I have an opinion, when it comes to issues, and there are people with whom I agree on those issues, but I don't think I have a "side" because that, these days especially, seems to entail all the unpleasantness that I'm railing against here.

I don't want to be in the position of defending a scumbag, when I myself am decrying scumbaggish behavior. I would much rather simply vote issues, rather than people. I can't, in good conscience, support a party that I actively disagree with more than fifty percent of the time. When I was younger, it was terrible, because when I found myself identifying with a group on one issue, I'd find myself being swayed by the group's views on other issues.

I'd like to see them in power. They are my chosen representatives, but I don't think they represent me perfectly. I don't expect them to. I don't expect ANYONE to, or even want it.

It's not just that the DNP or the GOP or the Libertarians or the Greens don't represent me perfectly, it's that they hardly represent me at all.

They aren't necessarily the 'correct side'; but they are MY side.

And this is the sort of attitude I reserve for other things. I haven't the energy, in any way, shape, or form, to apply it to a political party that I find reprehensible in position and practice more often than not.

I'll defend my chosen affiliations, against all comers. I just can't make political affiliations like that. And it blows my mind that others can.